Potential Coat of Arms

An area to assist, or give, design guidance to prospective armigers.
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Kathy McClurg
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Re: Potential Coat of Arms

Post by Kathy McClurg » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:20 pm

Could you provide more of your design rationale? It is easier to make recommendations is we know what you are trying to portray...
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Chris Green
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Re: Potential Coat of Arms

Post by Chris Green » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:44 pm

Try making the ermine spots smaller.
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Martin Goldstraw
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Re: Potential Coat of Arms

Post by Martin Goldstraw » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:17 pm

I would respectfully suggest that if there is an existing coat of arms Argent, a lion rampant and in chief, two dexter hands Gules then it may be that simply altering the field to Ermine and the lion to guardant would suggest too close a blood relationship with the original. I know that it is difficult to strike a balance between indicating some form of relationship and at the same time being different but, in my humble opinion, these arms are too similar to the original to be truly different. There are numerous alternatives which might be considered whilst still retaining the basic symbolism.

I'm not a great fan of Ermine as a field as it tends to overshadow the charges upon it. Here's a few suggestions using "per":

Per bend Argent and Gules a lion rampant and a dexter hand appaume counterchanged.

Per chevron Argent and Gules in base a lion rampant and in chief two dexter hands appaume counterchanged (or vice versa)

You could try per fess or any other combination. The lion could have two tails or the hands might be torn at the wrists.

[If using a red lion then the tongue and claws are usually blue]
ulster.jpg
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If I were to spend more time on the above image, I would make the per chevron more acute thus moving it higher into the chief allowing more room for the lion (a larger lion) and less open space around the hands.
ulster-2.jpg
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Chris Green
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Re: Potential Coat of Arms

Post by Chris Green » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:02 pm

I am no great fan of designs that bring together two or more charges that are vastly different in scale. Here Martin brings together hands and a lion rampant that juxtaposed with the hands seems scarcely larger than a mouse. Of course one does not need to be pedantically scale-accurate. But the lion is the noblest of the heraldic beasts and deserves better.

How about: Gules a Lion Rampant argent between two Flaunches Argent, on each a dexter hand appaume Gules (you can substitute "of the first" and "of the second" if that appeals). Flaunches (always 2) are still relatively rare, so there is little likelihood of a design including them being too close to an existing O'Neill coat.

Semy of hands appaume would be an interesting and unusual concept, but as Martin says about ermine, the field could overshadow the charge(s).
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Martin Goldstraw
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Re: Potential Coat of Arms

Post by Martin Goldstraw » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:05 pm

A minor tweak.
ulster-3.jpg
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Re: Potential Coat of Arms

Post by Martin Goldstraw » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:20 pm

I look at this one and I want to change the hand on the dexter side to a sinister one so that it looks like the hands are cradling the rest of the shield ;-)
ulster-4.jpg
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Chris Green
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Re: Potential Coat of Arms

Post by Chris Green » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:03 pm

Martin: Thank you so much for emblazoning my idea. Beyond my accomplishment I fear. Slightly smaller flaunches and hands would allow for the lion appearing less emaciated perhaps.

I agree with you about the hand on the dexter flaunch being made a sinister one, but might the O'Neills consider that unlucky? I know that the dexter hand is very important to some people.
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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Potential Coat of Arms

Post by Michael F. McCartney » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:43 pm

Interesting process so far. You can reduce the cluttered look of the ermine by using fewer ermine spots and arranging them to minimize the overlaps (just a bit of artistic license) or (if you don't include flaunches) by using an orle of some other small charges - I don't think an orle of ermine spots would look right.

One problem with lions rampant is their popularity and consequent risk of infringing some existing arms. The per chevron and flaunches approaches reduce this risk, and as drawn above can be visually quite striking. Another (which I will likely misspell) is chape-ployee which essentially has the upper corners divided by quarter circles touching in top center. This is relatively uncommon, reducing the risk of infringement; and would give adequate space for two hands, one in each corner, and more space / less crowding for your lion and likely ermine spots if desired. Whether it would be as attractive as the other suggestions, with or without ermine spots, I can't say without seeing them drawn.
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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Potential Coat of Arms

Post by Michael F. McCartney » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:55 pm

Brian - your recent post re: designing arms for a friend prompted me to look at this thread from 2015. So if you don't mind sharing, what did you finally decide for your own arms?
Last edited by Michael F. McCartney on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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