Page 1 of 1

Scottish Territorial Designations

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:46 pm
by J Duncan of Sketraw
There is a lot of confusion to what a Scottish Territorial Designation is, that's the bit that you sometimes see following a person name such as my own "of Sketraw".

Some companies selling small plots of land play on people's ignorance of these titles by saying "buy 1sq ft of Land and become a Laird, Lord or Lady" and are making a fortune from people who don't know any better and the practice is no more than a scam. W R B Cunninghame Graham of Gartmore MSc MA FSA Scot. on Fake Scots Titles has written an excellent article on 'Territorial Designations' not only to educate those that are not familiar with TD's, but to show how ridiculous these pedlars of 1 Square Foot Plots of Land are.

Please see - http://www.scots-titles.com/legal-opini ... esignation

Re: Scottish Territorial Designations

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:15 pm
by Steven Harris
Thank your for the informative link. If I may, I have a couple of questions regarding TD's.

1st) The use of the TD "of Brigadoon" is exactly the same thing as the dignity "Laird of Brigadoon" - correct?

These other questions are purely hypothetical, but have popped in to my mind anyway

2nd) Lyon may recognize/allow the use of a TD through either a grant or arms or by an "official recognition of change of name". The former can cost thousands, what are the costs associated with the latter?

3rd) Does the named land have to be in Scotland? Let us assume that a family of Scottish ancestry owns an estate outside of Scotland to which a well-attested name is attached - perhaps like the Vanderbilt family and their Biltmore. If the Vanderbilts had been Scottish, and if they had approached Lyon for a grant of arms, could Lyon have been able to recognize them as "Vanderbilt of Biltmore"?

Re: Scottish Territorial Designations

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:22 pm
by J Duncan of Sketraw
Steven Harris wrote:Thank your for the informative link. If I may, I have a couple of questions regarding TD's.

1st) The use of the TD "of Brigadoon" is exactly the same thing as the dignity "Laird of Brigadoon" - correct?

These other questions are purely hypothetical, but have popped in to my mind anyway

2nd) Lyon may recognize/allow the use of a TD through either a grant or arms or by an "official recognition of change of name". The former can cost thousands, what are the costs associated with the latter?

3rd) Does the named land have to be in Scotland? Let us assume that a family of Scottish ancestry owns an estate outside of Scotland to which a well-attested name is attached - perhaps like the Vanderbilt family and their Biltmore. If the Vanderbilts had been Scottish, and if they had approached Lyon for a grant of arms, could Lyon have been able to recognize them as "Vanderbilt of Biltmore"?
a.) The one who has the TD would not call himself a Laird however a person in his employ or tenant or the like may well do.

b.) Lyon will only recognise a TD if he decides to recognise the piece of land that the armiger owns as being adequate in size and of historical significance and out with a burgh. He will not recognise a TD adopted by a 'name change' changing your name to ‘of Birgadoon’ does not make a TD.

c.) The land has to be in Scotland end of story.

Re: Scottish Territorial Designations

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:27 am
by Kimon Andreou
This may be a stupid question but what does "out with a burgh" mean?

Re: Scottish Territorial Designations

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:09 am
by Kathy McClurg
J Duncan of Sketraw wrote:
Steven Harris wrote: 3rd) Does the named land have to be in Scotland? Let us assume that a family of Scottish ancestry owns an estate outside of Scotland to which a well-attested name is attached - perhaps like the Vanderbilt family and their Biltmore. If the Vanderbilts had been Scottish, and if they had approached Lyon for a grant of arms, could Lyon have been able to recognize them as "Vanderbilt of Biltmore"?
c.) The land has to be in Scotland end of story.
If I acquire, say, a mountain or reasonably sized tract of land, and cede it to Scotland.....?

:wink:

Re: Scottish Territorial Designations

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:29 pm
by Jeremy Kudlick
Kimon Andreou wrote:This may be a stupid question but what does "out with a burgh" mean?
Outside an incorporated area, such as a village, town, or city. For example, Mount Vernon (the estate of President George Washington) is not located within an incorporated area of Fairfax County, so is located "out with a burgh."