Dr. Martin Gray No. 0414

Arms Registered with the Armorial Register from 9th May 2013
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J Duncan of Sketraw
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Dr. Martin Gray No. 0414

Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:52 pm

The Arms of Dr. Martin Gray JP, Australia

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Entry: http://www.armorial-register.com/arms-a ... -arms.html
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Re: Dr. Martin Gray No. 0413

Post by Chris Green » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:30 pm

Either Dr Gray has a particularly small head or his helm has shrunk in the wash.
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Re: Dr. Martin Gray No. 0413

Post by Mark Helderton » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:49 am

The shield may be oversized by modern standards but certainly isn't wrong. Many of the older grants had oversized shields and crests, with small helms. I happen to like the fact that the shield is larger as it gives visual variety to the arms in the armorial register.

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Re: Dr. Martin Gray No. 0413

Post by Chris Green » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:11 am

The shield may be oversized by modern standards but certainly isn't wrong. Many of the older grants had oversized shields and crests, with small helms.
Indeed, but this emblazonment equips the small helm with a crest that is several sizes too large for it. Increase the size of the helm and the relationship between shield, helm and crest become harmonious.

And then there is the almost entirely white open book, pretty much lost on the argent "slice". Had the field been rearranged with either azure or sable in chief, the charge would have been visible at more than a foot.
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Re: Dr. Martin Gray No. 0413

Post by Mark Helderton » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:49 pm

Some Australian Magpies can grow to be 45cm long - so certainly not out of proportion to the one on his helm. How do you fit a dragon on a helm without shrinking it, or a ship for that matter? The heralds who issued the ancient grants given in the examples above created those representations based on their own ideas of what needed to be emphasized and what was important in the illustrations, which is probably why the helms look small and the shields and crests oversized - that was probably harmonious with regards to their ideals, not yours.

Although I think the hymnal would look better with more light brown / aged book colour, it does look darker than white - an argent-white/light brown on my monitor and can certainly be seen from a distance if I zoom the image out far. Regardless, the college of arms regularly breaks the rules of tincture - have a look at the grants on their website.

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Re: Dr. Martin Gray No. 0413

Post by Mark Helderton » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:57 pm

The heading of this entry on the forum says entry #413, but on the website it is listed as #414.

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Re: Dr. Martin Gray No. 0413

Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:13 pm

Personally I am a fan of large crests and hate to see a tiny little crests stuck on the top of a helm. The two parts of the achievement that says something about you, are the shield and the crest so I think it is good that they are prominent. The whole emblazonment however should be in balance and the unwritten rule of arms design of ⅓ x ⅓ x ⅓ for crest, helm and shield.

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I think their are a number of people out there that think they are an heraldic artists and to be brutal, they dont relay have a clue what they are doing. This is a shame as some have good potential and with some guidance could make the grade.
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Re: Dr. Martin Gray No. 0413

Post by Mark Helderton » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:28 pm

I think the unwritten rules of arms design change according to what the 'official' heralds of the time consider harmonious. I know that many would argue that your helm is way to big Duncan, and it also appears as though your shield is bigger than 1/3rd, but it looks good anyway and I can appreciate all of the different styles and ratios of the differing aesthetics of arms design.

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Re: Dr. Martin Gray No. 0414

Post by Chris Green » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:26 pm

My preference is for designs that depict the three elements approximately in the proportions they would have in real life. The proportions in Dr G's emblazonment are altogether at odds with this. Assuming that the helm could be worn, the shield would be too large to lift and the crest too heavy and unwieldy (unless executed in papier-maché). Sketraw's shield and helm are in proportion, but once again the crest would need to be in papier-maché.
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