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Blazon Queery

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:29 pm
by Martin Goldstraw
I think I must be having a bad day but I can't help but think there must be a better way of blazoning the shield of these arms (ignoring the fact that the illustration does not match with the annulat Or).
SOC Letter Lloyd Wax_FotoSketcher.jpg
SOC Letter Lloyd Wax_FotoSketcher.jpg (187.59 KiB) Viewed 9132 times

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:09 pm
by Chris Green
For a start "of the colours" is superfluous since "counterchanged" tells us that the same tinctures are to be used.

What or who are "The Society of Commoners (Wot no apostrophe?!) Heraldry"? Can't find them on the internet.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:12 pm
by Michael F. McCartney
It's a Facebook forum, some of whose members are also IHS members (here on the IHS forum) and/or on the IHS FB forum (e.g. Martin and yours truely).

The certificate above is one of several prepared as an enjoyable, if not always perfect, exercise.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:46 pm
by Martin Goldstraw
I don't believe that I'm a member of the Society of Commoners. If I click on the FB link it says it is a closed group. I've no idea what the group is, only that the armiger wishes to record his arms and I'm struggling with acceptance of the blazon. Having a brain overload day.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:06 pm
by Martin Goldstraw
I believe that I have identified the part of the (certificate's ) blazon which has niggled me. The certificate states (removing the of the colours) "Between in chief three swords palewise points downwards in fess counterchanged two Maltese crosses" which, when I read the blazon and attempt to emblazon it (in my mind) results in the fact that it is the swords which are in chief, which is not the case. I believe a more correct blazon would be "Per fess Argent and Vert, in chief between three swords palewise" etc etc. A simple reorganising of the word between.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:31 pm
by Chris Green
Your version is certainly clearer Martin.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:20 pm
by Martin Goldstraw
As a post script, I applied to join the Commoners Heraldry FB group and have been accepted. It appears to be a nice group of people and I look forward to reading a wealth of contributions.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:31 am
by Michael F. McCartney
There was some discussion board of this blazon over the last couple of days, resulting in a better blazon which Mr. Lloyd seems to like.

I don't have it written down but since you're now a member of that FB group you should be able to find it at or near the rather long thread on these arms. If not, let me know & I'll copy it for you.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:49 am
by Michael F. McCartney
Also, before I forget, there was also some discussion of someone else's suggestion that the crest dragon might be better red rather than green. That should make your day! - but last time I was there, it was just "what if"... You might want a "come to Jesus" chat (PM not public) about it, but check the FB thread first to see if CL is seriously considering a change.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:46 am
by Martin Goldstraw
He's ordered a printed certificate which will be issued with the image/information we have to hand. Nothing has been said about any contemplated changes.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:18 pm
by Mark A. Henderson
My apologies! I am late to the discussion. I was trying solicit assistance from the Facebook group to clean up the blazon, but the next thing I knew, Mr. Lloyd had registered. I was preparing to change the dragon to red, but then ceased all actions when I saw the link to his registration. By the way, a more recent blazon was posted in the group.

The certificates, as Michael stated, are just an artistic exercise. We are a Facebook group only. Initially, I started a free roll of arms for the members. The roll has become very popular. I later posted an sample certificate in the group to which several members made suggestions. Surprisingly, quite a few members have requested a personal copy. I decided, since It's quite a bit of effort, to only offer the certificate upon request. The certificate shows the armiger's placement on the roll (page and number).

I generally use the information and artwork provided by the armiger, good or bad. In the case of some members, the group members have assisted in the design of new arms.

I am not the owner of the group; however, the roll of arms and the certificates were my idea.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:10 pm
by J Duncan of Sketraw
Well the roll for the members is progressing and building well for your FB group Mark :D

Your artwork is also getting better although personally, I would like to see a larger helm and crest the usual guide lines for a balanced COA are approximately ⅓ shield by ⅓ helm by ⅓ crest.

I think some potential armigers do not realise that the crest plays an important part of their identity and what they are trying to portrait. In some cases the crest displays more information than the shield.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:24 pm
by Mark A. Henderson
J Duncan of Sketraw wrote:Well the roll for the members is progressing and building well for your FB group Mark :D

Your artwork is also getting better although personally, I would like to see a larger helm and crest the usual guide lines for a balanced COA are approximately ⅓ shield by ⅓ helm by ⅓ crest.

I think some potential armigers do not realise that the crest plays an important part of their identity and what they are trying to portrait. In some cases the crest displays more information than the shield.
Thank you, John! I appreciate you suggestions. Are you referring to my heraldic artwork or the artwork that is supplied by the armigers? I am still striving to improve on my personal emblazonments.

As far as the majority, I do request that armigers supply me with their preferred emblazonment and the artist who emblazoned the arms.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:31 am
by J Duncan of Sketraw
Hey Mark, we never stop learning :) I do think potential armigers no matter the source, should be advised about the emblazonment of their arms and what gives them a nice balance. I know this is my opinion but the ⅓ layout has been an acceptable norm for many years.

Re: Blazon Queery

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:10 pm
by Mark A. Henderson
John, Thank you! I agree with the 1/3 layout as it makes perfect sense.