Coat of arms of the English dirk

Heraldry in Arms and Armour
Post Reply
Alex Korobov
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 11:42 am

Coat of arms of the English dirk

Post by Alex Korobov » Wed May 22, 2013 6:29 am

Hello!
Help identify the coat of arms on the dirk.
Dirk English, the first third of the 19th.
Attachments
Рис.18.2.jpg
Рис.18.2.jpg (96.7 KiB) Viewed 5775 times
Рис.18.1.jpg
Рис.18.1.jpg (65.35 KiB) Viewed 5775 times
Рис.18.3.jpg
Рис.18.3.jpg (41.99 KiB) Viewed 5775 times

User avatar
Jeremy Kudlick
AR Reg. & IHS Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 11:04 am
Location: Central Virginia

Re: Coat of arms of the English dirk

Post by Jeremy Kudlick » Wed May 22, 2013 7:07 am

This appears to be a Scottish dirk; note the clansman's crest badge on the hilt. Unfortunately, I cannot determine which clan/sept this crest badge represents with the meager resources at my disposal. Perhaps John, Martin, or another of our Scottish counterparts may be of assistance.
Jeremy Kudlick

Semper Patriam Servire Praesto

Alex Korobov
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 11:42 am

Re: Coat of arms of the English dirk

Post by Alex Korobov » Wed May 22, 2013 7:26 am

Jeremy Kudlick wrote:This appears to be a Scottish dirk; note the clansman's crest badge on the hilt. Unfortunately, I cannot determine which clan/sept this crest badge represents with the meager resources at my disposal. Perhaps John, Martin, or another of our Scottish counterparts may be of assistance.
Thank you!

User avatar
J Duncan of Sketraw
Site Admin
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:57 am
Location: Banff, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Coat of arms of the English dirk

Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Wed May 22, 2013 10:23 am

It would indeed give the impression by the use of the strap and buckle to be a Scottish but there is something strange about the motto. Normally I would suggest, as it is meant to be a Latin motto, it would read 'et Virtute' (and valour) you would not expect 'et valor' as on the motto above especially with an American spelling of valour. Likewise 'vincet veritas' is also odd as I would have thought it should be 'vincit veritas' (conquers truth) and normally the other way round 'veritas vincit' (truth conquers).

I can find no crest with a seahorse holding a lozenge this is more difficult however as the Scottish ordinary of arms does not give the blazon for crests.

Maybe some of the other folks can shed some light on it.
Slaintè
John A. Duncan of Sketraw

The Armorial Register - International Register of Arms
http://www.armorial-register.com

Image

User avatar
Jeremy Kudlick
AR Reg. & IHS Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 11:04 am
Location: Central Virginia

Re: Coat of arms of the English dirk

Post by Jeremy Kudlick » Wed May 22, 2013 12:22 pm

Google translates the motto as "The truth will overcome and the value." "Valor" translates in Latin to "value", not to valo(u)r. This is indeed a strange one.

I've been unable to determine whether Irish clans used similar crest badges, or if they were effectively dissolved before the use of crest badges became common due to the introduction of English common law and society in the 16th Century.
Jeremy Kudlick

Semper Patriam Servire Praesto

User avatar
Chas Charles-Dunne
Site Admin
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:48 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Re: Coat of arms of the English dirk

Post by Chas Charles-Dunne » Wed May 22, 2013 2:26 pm

I have just checked the Index to Fairbairn's Crests and there is no listing for a seahorse holding either a lozenge, fusil or rustre.

Regards

Chas
Regards

Chas Charles-Dunne

User avatar
J Duncan of Sketraw
Site Admin
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:57 am
Location: Banff, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Coat of arms of the English dirk

Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Thu May 23, 2013 10:09 am

For sure it is not a clan crest in a strap and buckle most armigers post 1950s would use their own crests in a strap and buckle especially in the 19c. and it does look that sort of date 1800's. IT is a pest that they dont have crests in the ordinary of arms for Scotland.
Slaintè
John A. Duncan of Sketraw

The Armorial Register - International Register of Arms
http://www.armorial-register.com

Image

Post Reply

Return to “Arms and Armour”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests