Blazon this

The Language of Heraldry
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Joseph M James
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Blazon this

Post by Joseph M James » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:19 am

I found this in Scheibler'sches armorial-1450. This is an armorial of mostly German, Dutch, and Austrian nobles and all are depicted with tilting helms.
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Chris Green
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Chris Green » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:02 am

Argent a Fess between two Bars Gules. Not Argent a Fess cotised Gules.
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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Michael F. McCartney » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:01 am

In modern times, ditto. I do wonder, however, at what historical point these two blazons would have been seen as different - rather than just different ways to blazon a fat fess between two skinnier fesses...
Last edited by Michael F. McCartney on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chris Green
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Chris Green » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:06 am

Of course we really need to know what the original German blazon says. Any English language blazon has to be an Anglo-Saxon gloss on a Teutonic original.
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Chris Green
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Chris Green » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:52 pm

The arms are those of Von Steusslingen. The German blazon is : In Silber ein roter Balken zwischen zwei roten Leisten.
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Joseph M James
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Joseph M James » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:38 pm

Mr. Green, where did you find that. I'm always looking for more German resources.

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Chris Green
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Chris Green » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:15 pm

JOSEPH M JAMES wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:38 pm
Mr. Green, where did you find that. I'm always looking for more German resources.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scheibler_Armorial
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Joseph M James » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:00 am

Thank you Mr. Green. I spent hours trying to decipher the hand writing at the top of the pages when all I had to do was type in Scheibler armorial. Unbelievable! Sometimes I am so dense. In my defense I have spent years going through German armorials ,( looking for a particular coa), that don't have a resource like that and dissected and translated blazons word by word, I'm not used to having german blazons just handed to me. Thank you again.

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Chris Green
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Chris Green » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:24 am

Thank you Mr James. I hadn't come across Scheibler at all until you created this thread.
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Joseph M James » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:18 am

I don't know how to provide links, but this is a site with about 80 examples of armorials in different languages. All you do is click on each image to open the manuscripts:
heraldica.hypotheses.org/1770

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Chris Green
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Chris Green » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:16 am

https://heraldica.hypotheses.org/1770

Just copy and paste the web address (including https or http), highlight it and click on the tenth button immediately above (after B I U ...).
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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Michael F. McCartney » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:04 am

So, what is a Leisten?
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Chris Green
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Chris Green » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:36 am

Michael F. McCartney wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:04 am
So, what is a Leisten?
A bar, presumably narrower than "Balken", which also literally means "bar" as well as the heraldic fess. "Leisten" apparently has several meanings, one of which is: a batten, board, piece of wood used to hold something in place.
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Kurt Alex
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Kurt Alex » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:26 pm

So, what is a Leisten?

Glad to provide some clarification via links for those interested. As I am bilingual German-English, I will advise against using Google translate because of the specialized nature of the terminology. First of all, 'Leisten" is the plural of "Leiste". However, we really need to start with fess/bar/Balken

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_(heraldry) (English only)

https://heraldik-wiki.de/wiki/Balken_(Heraldik) (German, English and others)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balken_(Heraldik) (German, English and others)

and the diminutives barrulet, closet, fillet/Leiste/Leistenstab

https://heraldik-wiki.de/wiki/Leiste_(Heraldik) (German with some English/French)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiste_(Heraldik) (German only but with good images)

https://heraldik-wiki.de/wiki/Leistenstab_(Heraldik) (German only but with good images)

http://heraldry.wikidot.com/fillet

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/barrulet

The articles and images at these sites give good illustrations of the mathematical proportions associated with each of these ordinaries.

For more information on Germanic/Nordic/Swiss heraldry, see Fred Siler's postings with links in the IAAH forum.

P.S. to Chris Green - I have been trying to register at IAAH, but my submittal is always rejected. Can you help? Thanks in advance.

Regards from South Carolina

Kurt Alex

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Chris Green
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Chris Green » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:52 pm

Thank you Kurt.

As for membership of IAAH, our Secretary is at present in hospital and unlikely to be back in action for a couple of months. His in-box is therefore full and we are unable to access it. You should however be able to register for the Forum, where your participation will be very welcome. We shall try to deal with the outstanding membership applications as soon as possible. We need active people with knowledge of continental heraldry and linguistic ability.
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Kurt Alex
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Kurt Alex » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:13 pm

Hello Chris,

Thanks for the response. Please see the PN I sent regarding the IAAH registration.

Regards from South Carolina
Kurt

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Chris Green
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Chris Green » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:14 pm

Can't find any PM from you on IAAH Forum or here.
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Kurt Alex
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Kurt Alex » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:19 pm

Hi Chris,
Something went awry. I will try to send the PN once again.
Regards from South Carolina
Kurt

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Kurt Alex
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Re: Blazon this

Post by Kurt Alex » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:40 pm

Hi Chris,
Just sent the PN again ("Message Sent" appeared and message appears in Outbox, but not under Sent messages for some reason).
Regards from South Carolina
Kurt

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