H.R.H. Prince Aleksandar Pavla Karageorgevich

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Nenad M. Jovanovich
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H.R.H. Prince Aleksandar Pavla Karageorgevich

Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:44 pm

"Evropa“ (No.134, 2.11.06; pg.7), a well known weekly magazine from Belgrade has published a short information about the recent change in the arms of H.R.H. Prince Aleksandra (Pavla) Karageorgevich, based on the information I gave them a few days ago.

Info (in Serbian) here: http://www.czipm.org/evropa01.html

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Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:22 pm

Hi Nenad,

Do we have an image of the Princes arms previous to the changes for comparison?
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:27 pm

Certainly, John!

Old:

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New:

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Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:53 pm

Nenead thanks, It is nice to have the comparison.

Why have the changes in the escutcheon come about?
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:40 am

Well, second and third field used to stand for Croatia and Slovenia.

Namely, the arms were assumed, with the approvement of H.R.H. King Petar II Karageorgevich of Yugoslavia, by the Princes late father - H.R.H. Prince-Regent Pavle Karageorgevich.

Since that unfotunate episode (called Yugosavia) in our history is long gone, it is only natural to give up the symbols that have no bearing with the Armiger.

Also, the Croatian ''shahovitza'' has only unpleasent conotations and reminders from a Serbian point of view. Three genocides were commited under that very symbol over the Serbs in only one century. Not to mention the possible diplomatic desputes over the fact that it could be misunderstood as some kind of pretension.

This case is a bit similar to that one when English Kings gave up their quarter of France.
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Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:21 am

Thank you once again Nenad for your explanation it makes perfect sense.

I should have realised it may have been to do with the break up of the former Yugoslavia.

Sometimes you look at something and to quote the Monty Python team '"cant see the bleeding obvious"
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Post by Guye Pennington » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:43 am

Very interesting, Nenad! Thanks for sharing!

My wife is a Canadian and U.S. citizen, but her mother's nationality is full Serbian (they crossed the pond to the States only about 50 years ago). As such, I would be interested to know if she could obtain a grant of arms from the Royal family of Serbia. The new Serbian heraldic society -- are they issuing grants in the name of or under the protection of the Royal family?

Many thanks!
Guye
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:11 am

Well, Guye.

It's like this...

We don't have an official HA, but we do have an unofficial authority called The Serbian Society for Heraldry, Genealogy, Vexillology and Phaleristics ''White Eagle'' (http://www.rodoslovlje.com/beliorao/) and they create and register heraldry in their private Armorial Register. It's not obligatory under the State law to register arms in Serbia, however. Armigers are free to assume.

The ''White Eagle'' is not under any kind of formal patronage of the Royal Family, and they don't issue grants in their name or under their protection. The only connection between them lies in the fact that the ''White Eagle'' President, Dipl.ing.arch. Dragomir Atzovich PC is also the Chief Herold of the House of H.R.H. Crown-Prince Aleksandar Karageorgevich (therefore, not of the whole Royal Family).

There's yet another heraldic body in Serbia, and I happen to be the President. It's The Board for Heraldic and Genealogical Studies of The Center for Research of Orthodox Monarchism (http://www.czipm.org/heraldika.html), which designs and certifies heraldry under the High Patronage of H.R.H. Prince Aleksandar (Pavle's) Karageorgevich: http://www.czipm.org/pokroviteljstvo02.html

Therefore, I could be considered to be the Herald of H.R.H. the Prince, and you can see us discussing the recent changes in his arms in a small photo galery at the bottom of this page (click to enlarge): http://www.czipm.org/kod_kneza.html

Accordingly, we do issue appropriate Armorial Certificates (bilingualy Serbian-English if needed) for the arms we create under the High Patronate of the Member of the Royal Family, and with his arms properly depicted.

You are most welcome to observe some of the work in question in our Heraldic Gallery (in English) here: http://www.czipm.org/galerija-heraldika02.html

Hope this helps.
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:26 pm

Serbian Internet Magazine from Vienna, called “Istina” (“The Truth”) has also published my short explanation about the change at hand:

Image
http://www.istina.at/


PS. The CROM-BHGS has inlisted yet another important Associate - Caligrapher Svetozar Pajich. This means that we'll be able to offer our Armigers hand made Armorial Charters of very high artistic quality.
Some of his great work here (gallery - bottom of page): http://www.czipm.org/bio-16.html
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Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:57 pm

They are wonderful right enough Nenad what dates do they range from for the documents and the bookplates have we any idea?
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:29 pm

John, there are acurate copies of our Liturgical Gospels and Octhoichs dating XII - XIX century.

Also some of his own work inspired by our Medieval manuscripts.

A lot more at his personal web-page (Englis version): http://www.oldserbia.plus.co.yu/e_index.htm
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Post by Guye Pennington » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:12 am

Very interesting, and thank you for the description! May I ask the cost in dollars of a preparation of arms?

Many thanks!
Guye
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:12 am

Guye, I've answered via pm.
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:09 pm

Thank you Martin, it looks very nice.

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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:33 pm

Chev. Martin Steven James Goldstraw of Whitecairns

“A NEW VERSION OF THE COAT OF ARMS OF H.R.H. PRINCE ALEKSANDAR KARAGEORGEVICH”

http://www.czipm.org/intreg.html
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:32 pm

New rendition!

http://www.czipm.org/knapk.html

Click at the image to enlarge!
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Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:05 pm

The new one is nice Nenad...but there is just something more antiquated about the look of the old one If you get my drift
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:38 pm

Yes, and that's why we are making a hand-painted version too in egg-tempera.

This one is mainly supposed to be used on the web and press etc.
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:19 pm

It is my pleasure to inform You that His Royal Highness Prince Aleksandar Pavlov Karageorgevich has graciously signed and issued following Appointments:

1. Srechko Nikitovich - Heraldic Artist to The Princeley Branch of The Serbian Royal House of Karageorgevich

2. Nebojsha Dikich - Heraldic Artist to The Princeley Branch of The Serbian Royal House of Karageorgevich

3. Tudor Radu Tiron of Sunhulet - Honorary Heraldic Artist to The Princeley Branch of The Serbian Royal House of Karageorgevich

4. Nenad M. Jovanovich - Herald to The Princeley Branch of The Serbian Royal House of Karageorgevich


The newly appointed armorial officers are consequently allowed to use the heraldic badge representing their office.

ImageImage

More here /in Serbian/: http://www.czipm.org/klskdk.html
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Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:24 pm

Congratulations Nenad on the confirmation of your appointment and best wishes to all the other recipients.
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:09 pm

Thank you very much, John!
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Post by Martin Goldstraw » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:35 pm

A very warm congratulations to Nenad on this splendid honour. Such appointments are indeed rare and I welcome the news that Nenad is now Herald to The Princely Branch of The Serbian Royal House of Karageorgevich.

Well done to you and your colleagues Nenad. May your association with the Royal House be long and honourable. It is a well deserved appointment.
Martin Goldstraw

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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:13 pm

Really, Martin, you are too kind!

Thank you!
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Post by J Duncan of Sketraw » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:08 pm

Yes Nenad he lets you pay the bills as well! :wink: See the IAAH website for more details :D
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Post by Nenad M. Jovanovich » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:32 pm

It's a big place, John.

Wouldn't know where to look.

Perhaps you were reffering to this here:

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